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15. Gran Premio di Olanda 2022 - Zandvoort


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4 ore fa, Lotus ha scritto:

😄era una provocazione riferita a quella TRUFFA del crashgate... la parola di un imbeccato Nelsinho Piquet e di qualche prezzolato ( da Max Mosley ) tecnico Renault... ma se vuoi possiamo rivangare l'epopea del cosmonauta Vettel e dei mondiali in serie vinti con un progetto leggermente truccato...  ;)

Anche la mia 🤣 comunque grazie ma non ho il minimo interesse, e mai avuto, per Vettel. Ma neanche per la Red Bull in realtà, se Max corresse per l'Alpine tiferei l'Alpine di Max per esempio. Sta cosa di scannarsi su quale squadra sia peggio non ha senso, sono solo dei ricconi che vogliono diventare più ricconi. È come scannarsi su: "il mio capo è più ricco del tuo", bella soddisfazione... anche no.

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4 ore fa, Nameless Hero ha scritto:

stavo facendo due conti e notando che Verstappen potrebbe essere campione già a Singapore se vince con gpv sia Monza che appunto Singapore, poi mi son ricordato della sprint merda e ho lasciato perdere :asd:  

Beh fai conto che se vincesse tutte le gare, Sprint compresa, con GPV, prenderebbe 190 punti.
Mancano 7 gare alla fine, più la Sprint brasiliana, quindi potenzialmente 8 gare. 
Il secondo prenderebbe 133 punti
Il terzo prenderebbe 111 punti

Edited by FenixFavaretto
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6 ore fa, Lotus ha scritto:

😄era una provocazione riferita a quella TRUFFA del crashgate... la parola di un imbeccato Nelsinho Piquet e di qualche prezzolato ( da Max Mosley ) tecnico Renault... ma se vuoi possiamo rivangare l'epopea del cosmonauta Vettel e dei mondiali in serie vinti con un progetto leggermente truccato...  ;)

Guarda, in questi giorni in cui grazie ai due rinvii di Artemis I sono usciti dai tombini i vari Lunacomplottisti che stanno regalando perle a non finire, devo dire che un commento così sui 4 mondiali di Vettel può tranquillamente starci. 

Poi, con calma, ci spiegherai cosa c'era di truccato in quelle macchine.

Detto questo, e parlando nello specifico su quanto accaduto ieri con Tsunoda, che ha scatenato un putiferio complottista degno di Tinelli, Mazzucco e Marcianò messi assieme, con tanto di insulti social ad Hannah Schmitz, mi pare un po' assurdo parlare di complottone o tirare in ballo Singapore 2008 (come stanno facendo in tanti), cvisto che il pilota dell'AlphaTauri ha fermato la vettura ad un metro dalla postazione arancione dei commissari,  che avrebbero potuto tirarla via in 20 secondi e senza alcun affanno né Virtual Safety Car. Ma probabilmente sono stupido io... :asd:

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Vettura controllata dai commissari: differenziale rotto. 

Ha senso quindi la sensazione di ruota non fissata di tsnunoda

 

Detto questo alla red bull non penso siano cosi stupidi da architerrare un finto guasto/fermata in pista per una gara inutile in un campionato piloti e costruttori gia' praticamente vinto

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17 ore fa, Mak ha scritto:

Vettura controllata dai commissari: differenziale rotto. 

Ha senso quindi la sensazione di ruota non fissata di tsnunoda

 

Detto questo alla red bull non penso siano cosi stupidi da architerrare un finto guasto/fermata in pista per una gara inutile in un campionato piloti e costruttori gia' praticamente vinto

Anche perché si sarebbe fermato subito la prima volta senza ripartire verso il box, meglio di così 🤣 

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Interessante analisi sulla telemetria su un giro secco fra Leclerc e Verstappen.


Link diretto: https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/x6y780/telemetry_comparison_of_ferrari_and_redbull_from/

Ferrari got progressively slower than the rest as the car got lighter, no matter what the compound was. Luckily in the Dutch GP we had 2 stints that were very comparable on soft tires, the first stint and the last stint between LEC and VER.

 

Here's lap 5:

r/F1Technical - Telemetry comparison of Ferrari and RedBull from Dutch GP showing the traction issues with a lighter car, I suspect this is TD39 induced

LEC v VER lap 5 Dutch GP

Heavy car here, and a decent lap from both LEC and VER, although soon after this lap VER managed to carve an edge.

1 and 2 show that Ferrari was faster in the medium and high speed corners by a lot, however if you do this with a car that slides, you grain or degrade your front tires. A hard suspension can help with stability of downforce in those corners, although it doesn't help tire management.

Where a hard suspension doesn't help is the places marked 3, traction areas out of slow corners, that used to be a strong suit of the engine and the car, have been pretty bad, like they were bad in Spa. And this is on the good lap from Charles at the start of the race with both cars heavy and even a stiff suspension is going to flex a bit with 100kg of fuel onboard. Interesting to note here that top speed isn't very different, Charles had tow but above 1s behind the tow is at most 3-4kph in these cars.

Here's a lighter car, again with tires in a similar age and same compound, Lap 63:

r/F1Technical - Telemetry comparison of Ferrari and RedBull from Dutch GP showing the traction issues with a lighter car, I suspect this is TD39 induced

LEC v VER, lap 63

This is a lighter car, 10 laps old softs (8 lap old softs for LEC in the previous lap, so comparable given the lighter weight).

1 shows that in the hairpin the Ferrari better performance is totally gone, this is in a stage of the race where LEC is pushing hard and Max is in front, under pressure but not threat from RUS. You can see that Max is not looking to risk too much by the fact that top speed for LEC is higher at the end of the lap as well as the braking point in T1 is much later for LEC, VER is doing some lift and coast into T1. We should be seeing Ferrari performance at least in line with lap 5, unless the car just can't handle that when light.

2. even the high speed corner, where Ferrari had a big advantage on lap 5 is better on the Ferrari but barely now. Here Ferrari was gaining 0.5s in the first laps, and now it's more or less equal.

3. traction out of the corners where LEC made a mistake in quali is just terrible, really shows how good LEC was in putting in that lap in quali to get just 0.021s behind VER while the car was struggling so much in T9 and T10. LEC just can't get on full throttle as fast as VER.

To see this from a different angle we can check VER v VER and LEC v LEC in these laps:

r/F1Technical - Telemetry comparison of Ferrari and RedBull from Dutch GP showing the traction issues with a lighter car, I suspect this is TD39 induced

LEC v LEC lap 5 and 63

r/F1Technical - Telemetry comparison of Ferrari and RedBull from Dutch GP showing the traction issues with a lighter car, I suspect this is TD39 induced

VER v VER lap 5 and 63

The same areas pointed out in the previous VER v LEC comparisons see barely any improvement in speed for LEC, the hairpin for example is almost equivalent for LEC between lap 5 and 63, also the high speed stuff is better but by a much smaller margin than VER. The slower speed corners and traction are better too but again by a smaller than for VER, especially the last 2 corners.

With a lighter car a stiffer suspension will be traveling less of course and providing less help with traction, reduce the contact patch in corners and increase overheating problems since a smaller part of the tire is doing the same amount of work.

I can't quite see why Ferrari would start to have a harder suspension and suffer these problems unless it's due to the TD39 imposing limits to vertical acceleration. I understand Binotto said that the impact is minimal, and so did formu1a.uno, but I'm not exactly sure how else you would explain this. Unless Ferrari rolled out a brand new suspension and didn't tell anyone, this to me seems like they need to run harder to avoid violating acceleration limits.

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